Video

Kevin Thozet: ‘Higher bond yields feed into higher bond yields’

On the investment implications of the current economic outlook – plus the UK’s ‘fiscal loop’

Rising government bond yields are the greatest cause for concern in the current economic climate, argues Carmignac investment committee member Kevin Thozet in the above video, which was recorded just before he delivered the keynote speech at Wealthwise’s Wealth Forum Southwest in Bath earlier this month.

“Bond yields can go up for good reasons – for example, because economic growth is there,” he says. “Inflation can be a good reason as well because it is a scenario of economic growth. Bond yields can also be going up for bad reasons, however – and that is typically what is happening these days in, say, France.

“The phrase coined some decades ago to describe this is ‘bond vigilantism’. And so fixed income markets are very much concerned and looking at what is happening in France, and for very good reasons – or very bad reasons. French fundamentals are quite poor – slower growth, high debt, a high deficit, the cost of debt doubling every five years and very little prospect of a better outlook going forward.

We know that, let’s say, political deadlines and fiscal orthodoxy generally do not go hand-in-hand.”

“Now, today it is France – but tomorrow it could be Belgium. Yesterday it was the UK and, again, tomorrow it could be, say, Japan. And the reason why it is the most concerning factor is because we know that, let’s say, political deadlines and fiscal orthodoxy tend not to go hand-in-hand.”

Here he highlights the major elections taking place in France, Germany, Italy and Spain over the coming year and concludes: “The fiscal outlook is not looking great and higher bond yields cause what we call ‘reflexivity’ – that is to say, higher bond yields feed into higher bond yields.” [See also ‘Caught in the fiscal loop’ below]

It is not all doom and gloom, however, and Thozet picks out two reasons for optimism: artificial intelligence and the fact inflation tends to be accompanied by growth. “Generally, technological progress comes with three main reasons for hopes,” he elaborates on AI. “One is total factor productivity gains; the second would be that it would justify this massive capex cycle – so buying the ‘picks and shovels’ of global modern compute; and the third one is ‘consumer surplus’.”

As for the relationship between inflation and growth, he continues: “We are living in an environment where, yes, we have huge tech capex, which is supporting the US, and here in the UK, but we also have fiscal largesse – and both of them are contributing to economic growth and inflation. That is what we call nominal growth – and nominal growth feeds into companies’ earnings in the end. I would say that is the brighter side of things.”

Consequences for financial markets

Asked how he would translate his views into practical ideas for investors, Thozet picks out the themes of ‘higher for longer’ and ‘inflation is here to stay’. “So what are the consequences for financial markets?” he continues. “One is – be wary on nominal government bonds issued by those well-rated issuers of France today, Belgium tomorrow, maybe the UK after that – or the US for that matter.

“Another is that inflation-linked bonds could be very good instruments to navigate this environment. That is because they can absorb a demand shock – as they have a duration component embedded into them – but they can also absorb a supply shock because they have inflation expectations embedded into them. And the good news is that inflation expectations two, three, four or five years out are, in fact, quite cheap. Markets are only looking at the volatility of higher energy costs on short-term inflation expectations.”

Thozet’s final thought is that there is more to investing life than artificial intelligence. “AI is a very good trade but things can happen elsewhere,” he continues. “If we are saying ‘higher for longer’, that would mean being wary about valuation – and I would tend to say emerging markets are very well-positioned in this environment.

“They benefit from the commodities boom – notably, Latin America. And they benefit from the capex boom because they are building all those ‘picks and shovels’ businesses – notably, Taiwan and Korea – and they tend to come at much cheaper valuations. And while that is very true on the equity side, local currency emerging markets fixed income could be another area to consider.”

UK Budget 2026 – Caught in the fiscal loop

The UK needs high yields to attract capital, writes Kevin Thozet in an additional insight to the above video, but it can ill afford their rising cost

The UK fiscal outlook looks less politically uncertain than it did a few months ago – though no less constrained. Labour’s weak approval ratings make an early election unlikely, while the Burnham government remains tied to Starmer’s pledge not to raise the main tax rates. That leaves limited room for expensive policy ambitions for now.

The debt story is less of an immediate concern – all eyes are currently on the continent – as public debt to GDP has broadly stabilised below the 100% mark, while fiscal rules and reinforced market scrutiny impose a degree of discipline on the primary balance.

The main problem is that higher rates are steadily eating into that room for manoeuvre. Roughly a third of the available fiscal headroom has already been absorbed by higher borrowing costs, and any further rise in gilt yields mechanically tightens the leeway and further complicates the Budget’s arithmetic.

This matters all the more because, despite the government balance improving, it remains negative and the UK still runs a ‘twin deficit’. A persistent current-account deficit means the economy must continue to attract foreign capital to finance itself.

That capital can come through gilts, equities or private investment, but the basic constraint is the same: capital does not come for free, and UK assets need to offer a sufficiently attractive return to attract capital, which – all else being equal – means higher yields.

That is where the vicious circle starts. Higher bond yields help attract the foreign capital the UK needs, but they also raise the government’s interest bill, eroding fiscal headroom and leaving even less space for spending or tax relief. The more expensive it becomes to fund the external deficit, the more difficult it becomes to run an expansionary fiscal policy.

The current account is not likely to offer much relief either. It is expected to remain in deficit for longer – partly because the UK remains heavily dependent on imported energy, including gas from Norway and the US. That weakens the external balance and reinforces the need for continued capital inflows.

This Budget therefore sits at the intersection of three constraints: fiscal rules, higher-for-longer funding costs and an economy that still depends on foreign capital. So the circle closes: as external deficits require capital inflows, capital inflows require attractive yields, higher yields worsen the fiscal position – and a tighter fiscal position leaves less room to support growth.

Kevin Thozet, member of the investment committee at Carmignac

A full transcript of this interview can be found after this box while you can view the whole video by clicking on the picture above. To jump to a specific question, just click on the relevant timecode:

00.00: What gives you pause for thought around the current economic climate?

01.48: And are there any causes for optimism?

03.46: How would you translate all that into practical ideas for investors?

What gives you pause for thought around the current economic climate?

I would say the most worrying factor is rising bond yields – and there are two main reasons for this. I mean, bond yields can go up for good reasons – for example, because economic growth is there. Inflation can be a good reason as well because it is a scenario of economic growth. Bond yields can also be going up for bad reasons, however – and that is typically what is happening these days in, say, France.

The phrase coined some decades ago to describe this is ‘bond vigilantism’. And so fixed income markets are very much concerned and looking at what is happening in France, and for very good reasons – or very bad reasons. French fundamentals are quite poor – slower growth, high debt, a high deficit, the cost of debt doubling every five years and very little prospect of a better outlook going forward.

Now, today it is France – but tomorrow it could be Belgium. Yesterday it was the UK and, again, tomorrow it could be, say, Japan. So I would say that is the most concerning factor – and the reason why it is the most concerning factor is because we know that, let’s say, political deadlines and fiscal orthodoxy generally do not go hand-in-hand.

And we have four major European elections, over the coming year, within the four largest economies. We will have France, as I mentioned, as well as Spain, Italy and Germany with its ‘landers’ [regional] elections – and, in fact, a fifth one with Poland. So the fiscal outlook is not looking great and higher bond yields cause what we call ‘reflexivity’ – that is to say, higher bond yields feed into higher bond yields.

And are there any causes for optimism?

I would say there are at least two. One stands in two layers, which is AI – productivity gains should help on the growth front, should help on deflation front and hence should help on the deficit front as well.

Generally, technological progress comes with three main factors or three main reasons for hopes, I would say. One is total factor productivity gains; the second would be that it would justify this massive capex cycle – so buying the ‘picks and shovels’ of global modern compute; and the third one is what is called ‘consumer surplus’.

Having said this, we have to be a bit worried because consumer surplus is a bit like, say, WhatsApp – you know, it is very difficult to monetise. That is one cause for concern while a second one is that this massive capex means we are injecting or providing a huge demand shock – something like 3% of US GDP. So this comes with higher prices for electricity, for construction workers, for semiconductors … you name it.

On total factor productivity gains, meanwhile, for now we are not seeing that. We are seeing gains in productivity – but that is more because an enormous amount of capital is being thrown at the labour market.

So that would be one line of hope – and a second one is that with inflation comes growth. We are living in an environment where, yes, we have huge tech capex, which is supporting the US, and here in the UK, but we also have fiscal largesse – and both of them are contributing to economic growth and inflation. That is what we call nominal growth – and nominal growth feeds into companies’ earnings in the end. So I would say that is the brighter side of things.

How would you translate all that into practical ideas for investors?

I would say something akin to ‘higher for longer’ would be one idea. A second one is that inflation is here to stay – and it is not just linked to what is happening or not happening in Hormuz or in Yemen or in Ukraine. That would be the second key component. And so what are the consequences for financial markets?

One is – be wary on, let’s say, nominal government bonds issued by those well-rated issuers of France today, Belgium tomorrow, maybe the UK after that – or the US for that matter. That is the first point. The second one is that I think inflation-linked bonds could be very good instruments to navigate this environment.

That is because they can absorb a demand shock – as they have a duration component embedded into them – but they can also absorb a supply shock because they have inflation expectations embedded into them. And the good news is that inflation expectations two, three, four or five years out are, in fact, quite cheap. Markets are only looking at the volatility of higher energy costs on short-term inflation expectations. So that would be a second consequence.

And the third one is to be looking at more than just AI – I would say there is more to life than that. AI is a very good trade but things can happen elsewhere – and, if we are saying ‘higher for longer’, that would mean being wary about valuation and I would tend to say that emerging markets are very well-suited, or very well-positioned in this environment.

They benefit from the commodities boom – notably, Latin America. And they benefit from the capex boom because they are building all those ‘picks and shovels’ businesses – notably, Taiwan and Korea – and they tend to come at much cheaper valuations. And while that is very true on the equity side, I would also say local currency emerging markets fixed income could be another area to consider.